Rod durability vs flex and weight


(Duncan Philpott) #1

I was wondering, are these attributes a matter of pick 2 and lose 1 or are there rods that can take a beating but are still very fine when it comes to casting lighter lines.

I ask as I recently acquired my first softer rod, it casts a #3 fluro line far more effortlessly than my stiffer 390 does (as you would think) but surprisingly for me it led to better casting in the wind too. It seems more fragile and I wondered if you trade off on some weight can you get burlier rods which still effortlessly cast #3 or 2.5 lines? Adding to this is does this lead to tip heavy rods? Something that I have also noticed is how much less fatigue you feel after working a lot of stream at quite a high pace.


(Gressak) #2

This is a really good question that i am also interested in.

My kurenai 30 is my softest and lightest…7 penny / .9 oz.

After castin it for an hour…and switching to one of my other rods. I can really feel the difference in some of the aspects you note. Ease of cast and precision.

I find more fatigue and battery drain related to searching and observation effort than I do with rod weight and charactistics. I also recognize that a great casting rod can be far more efficient and ease that burden.

Some rivers are open enough that i feel i can use such a dainty rod. Other areas i want something closer to a weed whacker because of the tight quarters…and dense forest. I will often not collaspe my rods when moving A to B…and want the durability to take the abuse.

It is often noted how strong these rods are and i agree. Perhaps even the more delicate rods have underestimated durability. Occasionally i do something stupid and am always surprised that it didnt end in a rod failure.

Todoroki san noted Daiwa rods as being robust. I have not tried any from that company.

@todoroki34
What daiwa rods do you recommend and/or have used? Are they precision casting rods?


(todoroki toshirou) #3

http://www.gr-search.com/?PHPSESSID=36c494db5293777f3133d87f73bbb35d&kw=テンカラ竿&ie=u

Why
It is a strange story to me because it is a famous manufacturer in Japan
That fact is of question for me
Is not it sold there?
Of course I am not a person in the fishing gear industry
Nissin and Shimano etc were using until now


(Gressak) #4

I dont think I have ever owned a daiwa rod for any discipline. Daiwa reels. Yes.
Shimano spinning and casting rods, yes. Shimano spinning and conventional/baitcasting reels.

You could say I am not a Daiwa guy.

Daiwa or Shimano tenkara rods, no.

Over here in the US the access and inventory is mostly controlled by tenkarabum. We are all blessed with his efforts and he is a resource that has helped me so much. I suspect that the it is not practical for him to supply every product line and manufacturer and at the same time stand behind every product. Just not humanly possible for a one man show. The info and reviews between tenkara bum and tetontenkara(Tom Davis) have more or less guided me on my purchase path. I have not been disappointed, but also no little about the scope of products that exist over in Japan.

There is often talk about tenkara rods for the US fishery. I suspect this has something to do with the scale of fish we have over here. Fish over 16". From my understanding the species in japan do not get very large. I have found that in my area…true native wild fish in moutain streams do not get above 12-14", and most are under 8".


(Peder) #5

For whatever little it’s worth, I really like my Daiwa Seiryu X35. I used it a lot last year, especially going after the native brook trout like @Gressak shows us in his post here. Initially, I thought it was going to be a somewhat delicate rod. However, it took a lot of abuse from me trundling through the pine and hemlock forests of Vermont.

It casts a light line beautifully and is very light weight and doesn’t cost very much in the scheme of rods. I’m very happy that I bought it. It’s certainly not my only rod, but I do enjoy using it for the above stated purpose. Not to mention that I feel it is well made.


(todoroki toshirou) #6

Thank you for your explanation
I have used rods of each company so far but now the surviving in that is the tournament rod of daiwa. Still very delicate and above 30 cm, this rod does not have the corresponding force. Light weight and delicacy are important things, but I am looking for a strong rod that can handle up to about 45 cm

Now “tenkara-rod” is too lightweight and too delicate
I also want to choose a robust “rod” because it can be heavy


(Adam Rieger) #7

I know a guy…:joy: who last year traveled across the country camping and hiking all over and fishing. He carried with him an Oni Type 3 (some consider fragile); suntech rods, Rhodo and many others. He was often not able to clean the rods…they also went through huge temperature shifts from day to night even while collapsed and dirty. They also did a lot of bush wacking. They all held up. I think most of the rods that are very light and full flex seem delicate but are indeed designed for normal abuse. By normal I do not mean all the pit falls mentioned in the How often do rods break? section.

So I guess my conclusion from my friend’s experience is that the light rods that cast the light lines well are not actually as fragile as you would think. Toss them in your trunk and have fun.


(todoroki toshirou) #8

I will talk back because it seems to be a topic of the same

My Daiwa tournament rod has been using for over 20 years
It is because I wanted to think about that point that the rod survived.
It continues to use from the time of a new product

http://www.suikeikai.jp/keiryujitenmeikanspec.daiwa

I can not encounter a better rod than this rod
The finish is simple, but it is made of luxurious materials

A funny story with the break of a rod
When destroying the top section … How to handle the rod is bad
When destroying the second section … the fish is too big or the rod is bad
When destroying the middle section … You will taste heaven and hell


(David Walker) #9

Kind of amazing. I’ve poked around that sukekai website many times, and I frequently find something I had not found before. I don’t recall seeing that particular webpage before. I liked the proverbs about broken rods.

As for the topic of this thread. Which perhaps should be durability vs flex vs weight vs cost.
Yes I think rod design is a delicate balance of trade offs made during the process of rod design and prototype testing.

You can read about some of the thought process during rod design in some of the articles in the list on the Shimano keiryu development website [ シマノ渓流 開発・奮闘・記, That translates something like - Shimano keiryu development struggle record ]

So yeah, it’s a struggle to balance design choices to find the sweet spot for a rod that’s not so heavy, but super durable people wouldn’t buy it. They search for a design that is lighter yet durable enough that it wouldn’t soon develop a reputation for being fragile. But still also has desirable flex and thin enough profile to have low wind resistance. All vs cost of materials and production.

Some of the desired characteristics are more easily obtained by using expensive raw materials, but at the risk of making a rod so expensive many people wouldn’t purchase it. However, I think sometimes rod manufacturers will also make a few rod models that are very specialized, aimed at experienced anglers, who are not clumsy in how they handle or use the rods, who want a rod with the primary features of; low weight, desired flex, and thin profile, and they will tolerate high cost and low durability to get it.

[ I see a parallel here among the ultra-light backpackers. Low weight cost money. An 8 x 10 cuben fiber tarp might cost 2 ~3 x as much as the same size tarp made of sil-nylon, but weight half as much. They are the guys who end up with ultra-light weight camping gear, and an ultra-light weight bank account too. Some of their UL gear choices are expensive, and durable. Other UL gear is expensive, very light, but not as durable as heavier less expensive choices]


(todoroki toshirou) #10

@dwalker

I am very grateful for the wonderful commentary
That’s why the past rod chosen will continue to live