One rod

(David S Riley) #41

I use the same make of rod but in different lengths. I own a Shimotsuke Kiyotaki in 7’, 10’, 11’, 12’ and 13’ lengths. I find that this rod which I believe is regarded as a Keiryu rod suits all my fixed line fly fishing requirements, regardless of the size of fish I catch, which tend to be small coarse fish (bleak, dace, roach perch) here in the UK. All the rods collapse down to 15”. I can easily carry a couple of rods in my bag on public transport as I no longer have a car. There is also a bonus as my wife has no idea I have a couple of rods in my bag when I go out, so I can ‘sneak’ the odd half hour or so on the canal! :grinning:

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(Adam Trahan) #42

I have used a Keiryu rod, the same model in three lengths, each rod serving as parts for the other.

I fish a variety of streams, open and windy to tight and frustrating. Some streams that I fish, one length rod will not do if one wants to fish the whole stream.

I want one rod that is excellent that I can nearly do all the streams I fish.

I think I’ve got the rod.

So now I’ll do it and see how I feel after a season of it.

I am not going to fish it in Marble Canyon, I’ve got other rods for that and it’s not tenkara so to speak but more like simple fly fishing without a reel.

There is utility in choosing just one.

Adaptability.

Like one fly, you learn things you can’t with choices.

I enjoy learning, I like keeping an open mind to new things, operating with knowns but realizing that advances are often made searching and practices outside of what we know.

So, I am tying up my box of kebari now. Just a few tweaks on pattern choices. Not much change there.

Lines, got that, need to stay with my +1.5m and same length short.

Mostly refining but looking at the way my kit is put together and trying to maximize the components to work together to make the sum greater than its parts.

While warring the same drab clothes…

Nice that you noticed that David.

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(Tyson Sparrow) #43

I’m new here but love this idea, 90% of the time I fish a 4 m rod. The 2 I use the most is Oni 1 and Tanuki xl1 if I had to pick it would be the Oni.

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(David Walker) #44

Welcome to 10CT forum, I’m pleased to read new observations from new members.

I too mostly fish with 4 m rods, which also is an indication I mostly fish were 4m rods are usable and the appropriate choice. It’s kind of an irony that the “one fly” philosophy is written about more often than “one rod” philosophy. There are of course many interesting rod models, each having their own unique character. But additional flies are lower cost to make or buy and test out a variety of patterns.

Oni 1, Suntech Tenkarabum 40, Discover Tenkara Karasu 400, Tenkara Times Watershed 400.
Which at the moment I would probably rank them in that order. But tomorrow, maybe a little shifting of the order. As some of them I’d have to rank by coin toss they are that close, and how I’d rank them dependent on fishing conditions that day or my mood that day as to which one I’d prefer to cast. because each one has a little different character.

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(Tyson Sparrow) #45

I’ve been looking very seriously at the Tenbum 40, I’ve also have a gamakatsu 390 that is quickly becoming a go to rod.

Thanks for the welcome

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(David Walker) #46

I like the Tenkarabum 40 a lot, too. Nice casting rod. The smaller diameter grip takes a little getting used to, but I’m okay with it. I guess it cuts down the total weight a little.

Very nice balance rod, feels light in the hand. Close to the Oni 1.

From my own measurements.
Oni 1 Rod Moment = 5.07 Center of Gravity = 59cm
(just a little bit higher than some of the 3.6m rods, quite the trick to achieve) :thinking:
Tenkarabum 40 RM = 5.54 CoG = 74.8cm
Watershed 400 RM = 6.61 CoG = 80.6 cm
Karasu 400 RM = 7.0 CoG = 73 cm

[For reference Daiwa LL36SF, RM= 4.82, CoG = 67cm :: Nissin Zerosum 36 RM = 4.82 CoG = 72cm]

Not demonstrating much of a case that I’m pursuing one rod.

However, last summer I probably fished 70% of the time with the TB40, another 25% of time equally divided between the Oni 1 and Karasu. Not due really to a great preference for one rod over another. More convenience, why dig out another rod, when the one used on previous outing was already out of rod sock and tube, rigged and ready to go.

The remaining time fishing with 3.6m or shorter rods, when seeking smaller streams where the water level fell sooner than on larger streams.

It rained here so much last summer I really didn’t get to fish very often, time fishing was the lowest of the past six years, and caught something even less often. Looking forward to rain frequency being back to average this year. :joy:

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(David Walker) #47

Writing about a preference for 4m tenkara rods, and the Oni 1 4m rod in particular.

I wonder what the 4m Nabeya TSURI-PAL[ (なべや)- Tsuri pal] tenkara rods are like? Searching the internet I have ocassionally seen Tsuri-Pal rods, but never paid them much attention to them nor pursued learning more about them.

It is the rod at the bottom of this webpage for their river fishing rods, from the nabeya-jpn website. (Google makes a mess of the translations into English)
nabeya-jpn River Fishing Rods

Looking around their website some more, they also write about another genryu 3m, tenkara rod, that is not listed on the above webpage. Perhaps it is listed under a different category of rods. I will put the link to the website post about the 3m rod at the bottom.

I only know about the connection between Nabeya rods and the Oni rods, because earlier this evening I was reading the Discover Tenkara 2016 blog post reviewing tenkara rods and their characteristic. “Tenkara Rod Reviews: Top 10 Insider Tests for Rod Performance”.

No doubt I have read that blog post before, and their subtopic about the “Mysterious Mr. Abe” did not grab my attention at the time.

They wrote that Nabeya is owned by one of the latest generation family members of a bamboo rod making family with a 300 year history, and that Mr. Abe built the rod blanks for the first generation Oni rods, and Masami Sakakibara himself added the rod grips and completed the rods. [Paul also wrote another mysterious statement in the section reviewing the Oni rods, That they could safely say they are not Coco and Masami Sakakibara’s favorite folks (!) - geez, what’s that about then]

Good, but long article, with a lot of information. I would agree that while rod moment and center of gravity will tell you a lot about a rod. There are other rod characteristics that also create the personality of a rod’s quality. Rod flex, tip dampening speed, the rod’s tuning for casting different types of lines, or to match different preferred casting style, etc. All factors that lead me to like the before mentioned 4 rods, each 4m in length, but each also a little different feel to them, making it difficult to rank them from clear favorite to less favored, or just decide it is not necessary, a photo-finish in a race. Each one liked practically equally for different reasons.

https://www.discovertenkara.com/tenkara-rod.html

Nabeya:
NEWテンカラ竿 New tenkara rod
源渓 テンカラ竿 Genryū tenkara rod
全長:3.0M Total length : 3m
継数:10本 Number of sections ; 10
仕舞寸法:39cm Collapsed dimension: 39 cm

nabeya-jpn New tenkara rod

https://www.nabeya-jpn.com/about-tsuri-pal/261.html

Maybe Nabeya Tsuri-pal rods should be more known about here.
otoh, I don’t know if the first Oni rods are of the same quality as the new ones or if Nabeya also makes the newer versions.

I couldn’t find any links to Tom Davis reviewing any Tsuri-pal rods on his blog. And Dr. Tom seems to have a knack or gift for obtaining and testing just about every brand of tenkara rod, that isn’t clearly a low quality rod, not worthy of his time to review them.

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(Tyson Sparrow) #48

It’s amazing how much those look like Oni rods. I too read that article some time back, but the information takes on a new light after reading your post. Thanks for sharing.

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(Tyson Sparrow) #49

I sent them an e-mail and will update this thread when and if I hear back. Hopefully my google translate wasn’t too bad.

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(Peder) #50

Welcome to the forum @sparrow. Thanks for joining us, great to have you here.

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(Tyson Sparrow) #51

Thanks Peder, it’s great to be here!

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(David Walker) #52

Tyson,
It will be interesting to read their reply.

Except for finding post about the Nabeya tenkara rods on their own website, occasionally finding one of their rods listed in an online shop, or finding pictures of their tenkara rods (both the 3m and 4m rods) on imaging websites. I am not finding much on line about them. However, not everything is posted about online.

Here is a link to a 2009 blog post about replacing the EVA grip with a cork grip on a 3.9m Tsuri-pal rod.
At the bottom is written:
わざわざこんなことしなくても It is not necessary to bother doing such a thing.
鬼師匠が作ったのを販売してますけどねんチョキ I sell what the demon master made (aka Oni)
ここをクリック ⇒ Click here, the arrow pointing to - Demon Master’s Rod (the old TenkaranoOni blog post about when the original Oni rods were being developed and offered for sale.

グリップを作ろう! Let’s make a grip (Oct 10, 2009)
yowzo.naturum Let’s make a grip

テンカラ竿 Tenkara rod Sept 17, 2009
ameblo.jp/tenkarano-oni/entry - Tenkara rod

From a few of the Nabeya blog post their tenkara rods are capable of landing big fish. Though maybe or maybe not just a big fish rod.

NEWテンカラ竿 New tenkara rod
今回新しく開発した This time newly developed
3Mのテンカラ竿 3m tenkara rod
木下さんが Mr. Kinoshita
早速大物を釣り上げました。caught a big game at once.

サイズは50㎝のレインボーを Size is 50 cm of rainbow
2匹、48㎝のイトウ、45㎝のイワナ、37㎝のヤマメ
Two animals, 48 cm ito, 45 cm iwana, 37 cm yamame.

https://www.nabeya-jpn.com/blog/1121.html

テンカラ竿で With tenkara pole
木下さんが Mr. Kinoshita
テンカラ竿で50cmを!50cm with tenkara pole
S-glassで52cm、52 cm with S-glass,.
48cmを釣り上げました。We caught a 48cm

テンカラ竿で with tenkara pole
50cmまで釣れるのですねぇ、we caught up to 50cm
びっくりしました。I was surprised.
https://www.nabeya-jpn.com/topics/873.html

Bottom picture captions
サイズはきびれの26cm~38cmだそうです。That’s right size is 26 cm ~ 38cm
テンカラ竿でこんな大物がかかっても折れません!!
It does not break even if a such a big game taken with tenkara pole! !
でも、テンカラ竿です。But it is a tenkara pole.
https://www.nabeya-jpn.com/topics/683.html

新型テンカラ竿 New tenkara pole
木下さんが相模川水系にて尺上大ヤマメを釣りました。
Mr. Kinoshita fished a large Yamame in the Sagami River water system.
ライン:オリジナルメタルライン line: original metal line
ハリス:フロロカーボン1.25号 harisu (tippet); Fluorocarbon 1.25
毛バリ:#8のビーズヘッド毛鉤ピンク kebari: #8 pink bead head kebari
https://www.nabeya-jpn.com/topics/791.html

It would be more reassuring if more independent testimonials about their tenkara rods could be found. From someone other than the Nabeya group themselves.

However, I think they probably applied a lot of ideas learned from their, (C-word caution), Collaboration with TenkaranoOni. And Masami-san himself wrote on his old blog about development of the Oni rod, it is a small shop and making only a few rods each year. Might be very good rods, just not many people have them because a small almost one man shop can not produce many rods each year. And not every tenkara angler sinks time into online activities. I have an tenkara fishing email friend, who dropped off line a few years ago…

Tyson, you never know. You might hear back from them and be surprised someone in the shop is fluent in English.

Ah, she who must be obeyed and kept happy has summoned me from afar, informing me I need to stop being a layabout and cook dinner.

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(Tom Davis) #53

David, I had at one point thought about obtaining and reviewing the Nabeya tenkara rod, but I have a first generation Oni type I and was told by Oni that it is essentially the same blank, just with Oni’s personally made handle on it. Therefore I haven’t decided to pursue that acquisition.

-Tom

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(Tyson Sparrow) #54

I have not yet heard back, hopefully my translation was correct. I could only imagine what it possibly could have ended up. God knows how “rod” translates for sure.:sweat_smile:

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(David Walker) #55

Tom, thanks for that information.

It sounds like TenkaranoOni, worked with Nabeya to develop the first generation 4.0 m Oni, that Nabeya now continues to sell as the 4m tenkara Tsuri-pal rod. And I think most people who have fished with both the first generation and later generation Oni rods - view the later generation Oni rods as being superior to the first generation rods.

The Nabeya 3m tenkara rods otoh, might be something unique, and appealing to people that like short rods that are compact when collapsed. It was introduced eleven months ago. At the top of their topics list dated April 20, 2018.
https://www.nabeya-jpn.com/topics

素材:NASA開発 Sグラス = Material: NASA Development S Glass

I’m not familiar with S glass, but I know nothing about rod building, and S-glass has been around for several years being used by some commercial and hobby rod makers. There are many links for S-glass fishing rods or blanks when you do an internet search. Two links out of many others:

https://rodgeeks.com/pages/fiberglass-s-glass

rodbuilding.org s-glass vs e-glass

Not a low cost rod at 40,000 JPY, about $360.

Nabeya 3.0m, 10 segment tenkara rod

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(David Walker) #56

Rod is the easiest word. In kanji 竿. In hiragana さお, or katakana サオ.
Tenkara rod = テンカラ竿 , テンカラさお or テンカラサオ。

After that it becomes a little more difficult because Japanese sentence structure it kind of backwards, inside out and reversed from English sentence structure. Mostly the verb goes at the end. Best to use simple sentences.

One simple sentence that might be close enough would be
テンカラロッド購入方? tenkara rod how-to buy?

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(Tyson Sparrow) #57

Perfect thanks, I was half joking about rod translating, I have seen a few very peculiar translations, at least from Japanese to English of other words of course.

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(Tom Davis) #58

I’m not sure about that. Most of the folks that I have talked to feel the other way around, that the original Oni type I was better overall. But it sure was heavier than the current generation. Maybe that is where your statement comes from. Still, it’s probably up to perception. Both the original Oni and the current are great rods. It’s splitting hairs.

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(David Walker) #59

I stand corrected from my incorrect recollection. Both the original and later models are fine rods, just a little different. Which makes the Nabeya Tsuri-pal 4m tenkara rod a little more interesting in how it may have been refined over the last five or 6 years.

Comparing the 2013 tetontenkara review of the Oni rod to the specifications of the 4m Nabeya Tsuri-pal tenkara rod there are only very slight differences. Perhaps only due to how the measurements were made. Or maybe due to some small evolution updates in how the Nabeya rods are manufactured now.

Specifically rod weight 101.1g vs 95g, and collapsed length 63cm vs 61cm. Those differences may have more to do with whether the tip plug was included or not included when the measurements were made. However, I am assuming the Oni rod reviewed in 2013 was a Nabeya made rod, which may be incorrect. It might be a rod made by who ever makes the the current Oni rods.

http://tetontenkara.blogspot.com/2013/08/oni-rod-review.html

https://www.nabeya-jpn.com/product-tsuri-pal/303.html

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(Tyson Sparrow) #60

It appears the handle is less refined, possibly leading to a few extra grams.

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